Discussion:
armatures that will burn out?
(too old to reply)
Bernard Arnest
2005-03-27 23:31:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
If I do a 30" standing figure, intended to be fired at cone 10,
what's the best armature for that? With heads, I know that it's
comparatively straightforward to take out a ball of paper and plastic
around a wire dome. But you can't do that with every small limb
without making a mess of your piece, I'm guessing? Is there an
armature that will hold up and burn out, no removal required?

I'm thinking cylinders of posterboard taped together, possibly with
plastic so that the water in the clay doesn't make the posterboard
collapse, so long as the plastic and tape don't make too many problems,
as unlike paper they'll melt first and create some toxic fumes later...
And the paper might not be stiff enough, anyway.

Or, will wooden dowels pinned together with toothpicks work? My
concern being that the dowels won't burn out as thoroughly as paper
would, being denser, or that the sculpture will crack as the dowels
absorb water and expand, and the clay dries out and shrinks. Hmm, a
good way to simulate wrinkles of aging :-)

And what about a conventional wire armature? Steel wire shouldn't melt
at even cone 10, should it? It'll turn bright yellow or even a
sparking white as the carbon burns out and expand some and become dead
soft, but it shouldn't melt and hurt the kiln. And if there is perhaps
1/16" of paper wrapped around the wire, that will give the cushion
space necessary for the clay not to crack as it shrinks and the
white-hot wire epxands?


These are just what I've come up with by thinking about it, but I've
tried none, and before I devote 40 hrs and ruin the piece and perhaps
even the kiln, I want to know which methods actually work, and
potential risks and drawbacks that I haven't imagined.



thanks for your advice!
-Bernard
Andrew Werby
2005-03-28 18:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard Arnest
Hi,
If I do a 30" standing figure, intended to be fired at cone 10,
what's the best armature for that? With heads, I know that it's
comparatively straightforward to take out a ball of paper and plastic
around a wire dome. But you can't do that with every small limb
without making a mess of your piece, I'm guessing? Is there an
armature that will hold up and burn out, no removal required?
I'm thinking cylinders of posterboard taped together, possibly with
plastic so that the water in the clay doesn't make the posterboard
collapse, so long as the plastic and tape don't make too many problems,
as unlike paper they'll melt first and create some toxic fumes later...
And the paper might not be stiff enough, anyway.
Or, will wooden dowels pinned together with toothpicks work? My
concern being that the dowels won't burn out as thoroughly as paper
would, being denser, or that the sculpture will crack as the dowels
absorb water and expand, and the clay dries out and shrinks. Hmm, a
good way to simulate wrinkles of aging :-)
[I've used sticks wrapped with newspaper to construct a burnable armature -
the trick is to build something the clay hangs on loosely, so it doesn't
crack when it shrinks.]
Post by Bernard Arnest
And what about a conventional wire armature? Steel wire shouldn't melt
at even cone 10, should it? It'll turn bright yellow or even a
sparking white as the carbon burns out and expand some and become dead
soft, but it shouldn't melt and hurt the kiln. And if there is perhaps
1/16" of paper wrapped around the wire, that will give the cushion
space necessary for the clay not to crack as it shrinks and the
white-hot wire epxands?
[It depends where the immovable points are, and how the clay contacts them.]
Post by Bernard Arnest
These are just what I've come up with by thinking about it, but I've
tried none, and before I devote 40 hrs and ruin the piece and perhaps
even the kiln, I want to know which methods actually work, and
potential risks and drawbacks that I haven't imagined.
thanks for your advice!
-Bernard
[Just try it; do your best to envision what happens when it shrinks; then
you will be able to judge it better the next time around. Really, you only
need the armature until the clay hardens. If you can pull out as much as
possible before firing, there will be fewer problems with it.]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com
Lauri Levanto
2005-03-29 11:40:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Werby
Post by Bernard Arnest
Hi,
If I do a 30" standing figure, intended to be fired at cone 10,
what's the best armature for that? With heads, I know that it's
comparatively straightforward to take out a ball of paper and plastic
around a wire dome. But you can't do that with every small limb
without making a mess of your piece, I'm guessing? Is there an
armature that will hold up and burn out, no removal required?
I'm thinking cylinders of posterboard taped together, possibly with
plastic so that the water in the clay doesn't make the posterboard
collapse, so long as the plastic and tape don't make too many problems,
as unlike paper they'll melt first and create some toxic fumes later...
And the paper might not be stiff enough, anyway.
Or, will wooden dowels pinned together with toothpicks work? My
concern being that the dowels won't burn out as thoroughly as paper
would, being denser, or that the sculpture will crack as the dowels
absorb water and expand, and the clay dries out and shrinks. Hmm, a
good way to simulate wrinkles of aging :-)
[I've used sticks wrapped with newspaper to construct a burnable armature -
the trick is to build something the clay hangs on loosely, so it doesn't
crack when it shrinks.]
Post by Bernard Arnest
And what about a conventional wire armature? Steel wire shouldn't melt
at even cone 10, should it? It'll turn bright yellow or even a
sparking white as the carbon burns out and expand some and become dead
soft, but it shouldn't melt and hurt the kiln. And if there is perhaps
1/16" of paper wrapped around the wire, that will give the cushion
space necessary for the clay not to crack as it shrinks and the
white-hot wire epxands?
[It depends where the immovable points are, and how the clay contacts them.]
Post by Bernard Arnest
These are just what I've come up with by thinking about it, but I've
tried none, and before I devote 40 hrs and ruin the piece and perhaps
even the kiln, I want to know which methods actually work, and
potential risks and drawbacks that I haven't imagined.
thanks for your advice!
-Bernard
[Just try it; do your best to envision what happens when it shrinks; then
you will be able to judge it better the next time around. Really, you only
need the armature until the clay hardens. If you can pull out as much as
possible before firing, there will be fewer problems with it.]
Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com
Good advices again Andrew.
For my 2 cents:
I have used hanging armature of a rope.
You need to fasten it to the ceiling or a crossbar.
The first rope goes down through head and continus as spine (with some
knots to attach the clay.
A wooden stick is tied to form the shoulders,
other knotted ropes support the arms and legs.

If your figure is 30" high, you may find it necessary to hollow it out
anyway. That is the moment to remove armatures.

-lauri
Bernard Arnest
2005-03-29 15:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Thanks! I'll plan on removing the armature, then, and remember to make
sure that no clay rests too heavily on it. And I'll keep the wooden
dowls and rope (never thought about a hanging armature!) in mind for
when I get better and can do something small

thanks again!
-Bernard
Lauri Levanto
2005-03-31 20:15:16 UTC
Permalink
The figure I used it was 4ft high.
There was one particular problem,
my rope streched of the weight of clay.

-lauri
Post by Bernard Arnest
Thanks! I'll plan on removing the armature, then, and remember to make
sure that no clay rests too heavily on it. And I'll keep the wooden
dowls and rope (never thought about a hanging armature!) in mind for
when I get better and can do something small
thanks again!
-Bernard
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